The sixth anniversary episode of the Digital HR Leaders podcast wasn’t just a milestone — it was a wake-up call. In a candid conversation, David Green and Dave Ulrich (often called the father of modern HR) unpacked the profession’s biggest transformation yet, offering frameworks, mindset shifts, and strategic imperatives for anyone in the people business.

The response was overwhelming. From organizational psychologists to chief people officers, many called it the most impactful episode to date.

So, what should leaders take away?

1. From HR Tasks to Business Impact with "So That"

Dave’s now-famous phrase—add “so that” after every HR initiative—came through as a central theme.

“It’s not about hybrid work, mental health, or learning programs,” he explained. “It’s about creating value for someone outside HR. The customer. The investor. The community.”

HR professionals must stop leading with activity and start with purpose. Every policy, every program, every dashboard must tie back to a clear outcome. Leaders from across the community embraced this mindset shift immediately.

Perhaps the most powerful mindset shift from Ulrich’s playbook is deceptively simple: add “so that” to every HR action.

• We are improving employee experience so that customers receive better service.
• We are enhancing leadership development so that our strategy can be executed effectively.
• We are working on mental health so that our people can stay resilient and productive.

This forces a move from input to outcome. It changes HR from being a support function to a value-creation engine.

2. Stop Reporting Means—Start Looking for Variance

Ulrich took aim at the overuse of averages in HR analytics. “The mean is a mean thing,” he quipped. A score of 3 out of 5 tells you nothing if it masks a wide variation of experiences.

HR must embrace metrics that show differentiation. What separates top-performing teams or branches from the rest? What is unique in your culture that drives results? Use variance and correlation, not just means, to uncover where real value lies.

3. Elevate Your Metrics to Reflect Stakeholder Value

Most HR metrics are rear-facing—turnover rates, time to fill, engagement scores. These matter, but they don’t tell you what will happen.

Dave Ulrich urges a powerful shift in perspective: HR should stop trying to predict business results like profit directly and instead position itself as a lead indicator of the factors that drive those results. Rather than focusing on internal metrics alone, HR must use data to demonstrate how its work influences external outcomes—such as customer preference, investor trust, and brand reputation. These are the true drivers of future business success. By reframing its role this way, HR moves from being a lagging indicator to becoming a leading force in the business.

David added that this requires new partnerships, especially with marketing, to connect employee engagement to customer experience.

4. Make Hope a Metric

One of the most moving moments came when Dave introduced hope as a strategic asset.

“Hope is not fluff,” he said. “It is future-focused motivation. It’s optimism with action. If someone leaves a meeting with you feeling more hopeful, you’ve done your job as a leader.”

The power of hope, he argued, lies in its ability to increase resilience, performance, and retention. It is a new lens for people experience and leadership development.

The audience agreed. Kyle Forrest from Deloitte called it a core theme of their 2025 Human Capital Trends. ReviewTailor wrote, “Compassion and performance are not opposites. They are partners.”

5. Four Priorities for the Future

Dave laid out four key ideas that will define HR for the next decade

• Performance: Always start with the value being delivered
• Prioritization: Focus only on what drives results
• Paradox: Learn to be both operational and strategic, both tech-driven and human-centered
• Personalization: Use data to tailor the employee journey without losing coherence or scale

These ideas offer both clarity and ambition. They also reflect the maturity of a function that has long been underestimated—and is now indispensable.

A Strategic Reset for the People Profession

In closing, the episode reminded listeners that HR’s purpose isn’t just to do HR work—it’s to help the business succeed through people. That means focusing on stakeholder value, measuring what truly matters, and leading with hope. When HR speaks the language of outcomes—and clearly connects its work to what customers buy and what investors support—it earns its seat at the strategy table. Not as a guest, but as a co-author of the future.

The future of HR has never been more human—or more strategic.

Team Exercise: The “So That” Audit

1. Step 1: List your top 5 current HR programs or priorities (e.g. hybrid policy, L&D, wellness, onboarding, DEI).
2. Step 2: For each, complete the sentence: “We are doing [this initiative] so that [clear outcome for a stakeholder outside HR].”
3. Step 3: Discuss as a team:

• Which outcomes are vague or internal-facing?
• Which stakeholders are missing?
• How can we reframe or refine these to drive business value?

Bonus: Invite a customer success or marketing colleague to join and challenge your logic.

I keep a close eye on what our Future Work Experts are thinking, saying, and questioning. I break down the key conversations and brainstorm practical steps we can take to move forward.

This week:

WORKPLACE FLEXIBILITY

​Flex Index Reveals Truth​

• The newly released Q2 2025 Flex Index—now part of Work Forward under Brian Elliott’s leadership—reveals that the so-called “great return to office” is overstated. While the media highlights every new five-day mandate, 67% of U.S. companies still maintain flexible work policies, based on data from 8,500+ firms. Size determines rigidity: 24% of Fortune 500s now require full-time office work (up from 13% last year), while 70% of smaller companies remain fully flexible. Structured hybrid is the dominant model at 43%, with the 3-day office week emerging as standard.
• Yet the most telling stat comes from a partnership with Stanford's Nick Bloom: while required office days rose 13% year-over-year (from 2.5 to 2.8), actual attendance rose less than 2%—a widening compliance gap. Brian calls Flex Index the “Consumer Reports” of workplace policy and asks leaders to reflect: Are your employees showing up, or just your mandates?

📝 Prompt: Pull up your current workplace policy and compare it to actual attendance data. How wide is your compliance gap? Host a leadership roundtable to explore whether your hybrid strategy reflects employee behavior or just headline pressure. What would happen if you co-designed in-office rhythms with teams instead of mandating them?

NEW LEADERSHIP

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​Rise of the Chief of Work​

• ​Phil Kirschner proposes a new executive archetype: the Chief of Work, a role that unifies workplace experience across HR, IT, and Real Estate. Citing Moderna’s merger of people and digital leadership and other hybrid CXO titles (e.g., Chief People and AI Enablement), Phil argues that structure alone isn’t enough—strategic integration is key.
• He outlines three emerging EX models: dedicated, embedded, and virtual/distributed, emphasizing that effectiveness depends on shared principles, cross-functional collaboration, and aligned metrics. The real opportunity lies in forming multidisciplinary teams with dedicated funding and a common North Star vision of work. Without it, workplace transformation will remain siloed and stagnant.

📝 Prompt: Look at your org chart: can your workplace, IT, and people experience leads finish each other’s sentences? Map where these roles currently sit, and run a cross-functional sprint to identify one process that would benefit from shared ownership.

ORGANIZATIONAL DESIGN

​Flatten to Scale​

• ​Sophie Wade outlines why traditional hierarchical structures hinder agility in AI-powered, digitally distributed businesses. Quoting leaders like Bill Anderson (Bayer) and Daniel Ek (Spotify), she argues for “faster, flatter” models that promote self-direction, decentralization, and trust-based leadership.
• Companies like Morning Star, Buurtzorg, and W.L. Gore show that flat organizations can thrive even in non-tech sectors. McKinsey suggests fewer than six layers, while BCG highlights spans of control of 1:30 for agile managers. Key levers include delayering, decentralizing decision rights, increasing transparency, and rethinking job titles to focus on output, not hierarchy.

📝 Prompt: Audit your org: How many layers between your frontline and CEO? Can decisions be made at the edge without sign-offs? Host a leadership workshop where each department maps one process that could be flattened—then prototype a “faster, flatter” version.

AI IN HR

​Ethics First, Algorithms Second​

• ​Anthony Onesto urges HR leaders to adopt AI with deliberate ethical guardrails. While AI offers gains in speed, personalization, and objectivity—from resume screening to employee development—the risks are just as profound.
• Studies show AI can reduce opportunities for underrepresented groups by 30%, and over 60% of employees fear unfair judgment by automated systems. Key watch-outs include the bias trap, privacy erosion, black-box opacity, and dehumanization.
• Anthony recommends creating an HR AI ethics charter, ensuring human oversight, and boosting AI literacy across teams to build trust and accountability.

📝 Prompt: Does your HR team have an AI ethics charter in place? Gather your team to audit current or planned AI tools for bias risk, transparency, and explainability, then role-play how you would justify an AI-driven HR decision to a skeptical employee.

🔥 QUICK HITS:

​[CULTURE MEASUREMENT] Is Your Culture Working? // By Chris Dyer​

Most leaders assume their culture is strong, but few measure it. Chris Dyer offers a 7-question Culture Audit that takes less than a minute to complete but often reveals hidden issues blocking team momentum. The logic is simple: what gets measured gets attention, and what gets attention improves. If you're not tracking how culture performs, you're guessing, not leading.

The 7 Questions Are:

1. Are decisions made behind closed doors or in the open?
2. When was the last time a frontline idea became policy?
3. Does your leadership highlight what’s going right more than what’s going wrong?
4. Do people feel their contributions are seen and valued?
5. What behavior metrics (not just KPIs) do you track?
6. What makes working here better than anywhere else? Can everyone answer that?
7. Are mistakes buried… or shared as learning moments?

📝 Prompt: Review each of the 7 questions with your leadership team. Which ones do you have clear answers to—and which reveal blind spots? What would your frontline team say if they answered them today?

​[AI LEADER] The Beehive Model of Leadership // By Henrik Jarleskog​

Henrik Jarleskog argues that the future of work is no longer about office policies, but redesigning the entire operating system of work. As a “superworker,” he collaborates with 15+ AI agents to enhance strategy, execution, and creativity.

His Beehive Model emphasizes dynamic, purpose-driven teams over rigid hierarchies, where leadership is distributed and the org chart becomes a mesh of networks. This model calls for replacing static management with living systems that adapt weekly, not annually. Sweden’s long-standing trust in flat, digital-first cultures shows the way.

📝 Prompt: What if your org chart were a mesh network instead of a hierarchy? How could AI agents augment your best strategists? What’s stopping your operating model from evolving weekly?

​[AI IN REAL ESTATE] Prompts Will Power Real Estate // By Antony Slumbers​

Antony Slumbers introduces The Built World Challenge, a global initiative to reengineer real estate work through structured prompts. Across markets, 80% of the work—like leasing analysis or capex planning—relies on 20% of shared workflows, making them ideal for AI acceleration. Prompts act as decision frameworks, structuring tasks as Inputs → Processing → Outputs, and serve as the source code for emerging agentic AI systems. With advanced models like OpenAI’s o3, a single prompt can now drive complex, multi-step workflows across the real estate lifecycle. This initiative aims to build a Global Prompt Repository and host Promptathons that shape the industry's future operating system.

📝 Prompt: Identify one repeatable workflow in your organization. Can you define it as a structured prompt—what data it needs, how it’s processed, and what the output should be? Explore joining The Built World Challenge, which invites leaders to contribute their top challenges, co-create expert prompts, and test solutions through global competitions and real estate–tech matchmaking events.

I track what’s worth your attention—bringing you the news and updates that matter most to how we work, lead, and grow.

This week:

AI IN ORGANIZATION

​How to Scale AI Inside Companies​

AI is boosting individual productivity fast, workers in Denmark say it halves time on 41% of tasks, and American users report 3x speed gains. Yet companies still see only modest performance improvements, exposing a key gap: personal AI use doesn’t scale without organizational redesign.

​Ethan Mollick names this the “Secret Cyborg” problem, where high performers hide AI usage due to unclear incentives, fear of layoffs, or cultural stigma. Firms like Shopify and Duolingo are starting to shift with internal memos on AI urgency, but few paint a vivid picture of what an AI-powered workplace feels like.

The proposed fix: activate Leadership (vision and safety), Lab (rapid cross-functional prototyping), and Crowd (employee-led discovery). Smart orgs are building internal AI benchmarks, spinning up “vibework” squads, and rewarding breakthroughs with vacations and cash.

The big lesson: AI transformation isn’t about tools, it’s about speeding up organizational learning before your competitors do.

📝 Prompt: Run a “Cyborgs Anonymous” Workshop
Ask your team: Where have you secretly used AI to boost your work? Collect anonymous submissions. Group and review the top use cases. Then, turn those into shared templates, starter kits, or prototypes in your team’s internal AI Lab. Reward top sharers with visible recognition, or even a paid Friday off.

AI INCENTIVE MODEL

​Cisco Lets Teams Keep 50% of AI Wins​

At Cisco, AI savings come with a twist: teams that unlock productivity gains through AI get to reinvest half of what they save.

Chief People, Policy & Purpose Officer Francine Katsoudas shared that this 50–50 model is designed to build a culture of experimentation, giving teams both autonomy and incentive to innovate.

One leader who saved $20 million through automation was allowed to keep and reinvest the full amount.

Meanwhile, all hiring requests now go through a new “AI work architect,” who helps managers explore what tasks AI could absorb before adding headcount.

The approach borrows from Shopify’s own mandate, where leaders must prove why AI can’t do the job before hiring.

📝 Prompt: Create a “Savings-to-Strategy” Incentive Challenge
Ask each department to identify one recurring cost, workflow, or process they could reduce using AI. If successful, let them reinvest 50% of the savings into a team-defined strategic project, whether tools, training, or innovation pilots. Present ideas at the next all-hands and showcase early wins.

TALENT FLYWHEEL

​Walmart’s Talent Flywheel at Scale​

Walmart’s first-ever Chief Talent Officer, Lo Stomski, is reimagining talent operations by uniting recruitment, development, and workforce planning into a single, integrated ecosystem.

Her “talent flywheel” model emphasizes cross-functional leadership, addressing everything from hard-to-fill roles to career growth for 2.1 million associates.

Stomski says employees want three things: purpose, impact, and growth—and meeting those needs requires active feedback loops and regular field visits.

AI and machine learning are on the radar, with Walmart engaging startups and consortia to accelerate innovation. Above all, she stresses the need for constant dialogue with frontline employees to build a true “talent academy.”

📝 Prompt: What would your organization’s “talent flywheel” look like?
Gather your leadership team and map your end-to-end talent experience—from recruiting to promotion. Identify one disconnect between teams (e.g., recruiters and L&D) and design a shared initiative that closes that gap. Then test it in one location or role and gather feedback directly from employees.

AI PHILOSOPHY

​Philosophy Is Your AI Strategy​

Philosophy—not algorithms—is the hidden driver of AI success, argue Michael Schrage and co-authors, urging leaders to move beyond tech obsession to first-principles thinking.

Concepts like teleology (purpose), ontology (what exists), and epistemology (what we know) are reframed as strategic tools for extracting business value from AI.

The flawed launch of Google Gemini illustrates “teleological confusion,” where conflicting aims like diversity vs. historical accuracy created backlash. Instead of mapping only ethics and compliance, organizations must define what they believe, what AI should learn, and what to optimize.

In agentic AI systems, where tools act autonomously, purpose and pattern design become philosophical boundaries—not technical afterthoughts.

📝 Prompt: Workshop: Map your organization’s AI philosophy in 3 layers—(1) Purpose: What are we trying to optimize? (2) Ontology: What do we choose to measure, label, or track? (3) Epistemology: Where does our “truth” or data come from
Then discuss: where are these in conflict? Where do they reinforce each other?

MENTOR AT WORK

​Mentors Make People Stay​

Mentorship is emerging as a core driver of employee retention, especially as traditional workforce programs fall short in building long-term commitment.

Nicholas Wyman argues that great mentors don’t just teach technical skills—they model soft skills, decode workplace culture, and offer human connection during moments of doubt.

With multigenerational teams and rising burnout, organizations must go beyond transactional management to enable relational support.

Practical steps include structured mentor-mentee matching, offering loose frameworks, and publicly recognizing mentors.

Wyman’s call is clear: if leaders want loyalty, they must invest in people who lift others.

📝 Prompt: "Map Your Mentorship Gaps". In your next team or department meeting, ask:

• Who has a mentor they actively learn from?
• Who is currently mentoring someone else?

Then identify areas where mentoring isn't happening and explore how to create low-friction, high-impact opportunities, especially across generational lines or job functions. Invite team members to co-design the framework, then trial it for 30 days and reflect.

🔥 QUICK HIT:

• ​AI Coaches Are Coming for Sales Teams: Databricks is scaling AI coaching with Yoodli, giving 1,000 sales employees a "batting cage" to practice pitches and receive real-time feedback. With Google, Snowflake, and RingCentral also using it, the tool costs ~$20/user/month and is spreading beyond sales to leadership training. Yoodli raised $13.7M to compete with generalized tools like ChatGPT by offering domain-specific drills and empathy feedback.
• ​From Chips to Data: A New Cold War: The U.S.–China trade war has shifted to AI chips, cloud infrastructure, and data sovereignty. With export controls tightening and models like DeepSeek rising, tech dominance now hinges on who controls compute, code, and data. Global firms must navigate a splintering digital economy and mounting geopolitical pressure.